Ladybird adopts Rust, with help from AI
31 points by jmillikin
31 points by jmillikin
zero regression is pretty cool. it's nice to have a comprehensive test suite
As someone who has written my share of test262 tests, I would say that it's a good test suite - better than most languages, not that this is a high bar - but very, very far from being "comprehensive" in the sense of "passing the tests is sufficient to be confident your implementation is accurate".
Many bugs in JS engines end up looking like x = [1, 1, 1, 1, 1,]; delete x[2]; Array.prototype[2] = 'length'; x[x[2]] // memory corruption. This example is made up but illustrative; real bugs are often more complex than that. It's not really feasible to write tests for that kind of thing in advance of writing the engine.
Huh. I thought they seemed pretty intent on Swift.
Cool, too bad Ladybird is riddled with controversies (founder supporting the white replacement theory and fascism) :/
founder supporting the white replacement theory and fascism
I know he runs in the same circles as some people who do (e.g he publicly supported DHH in the last ruby controversy, and ladybird gets money from FUTO) and that made me suspect that even if he himself isn't a fascist, it doesn't seem to be a dealbreaker for him. Do you happen to have a link to any of his direct comments on either white replacement or fascism, though?
Drew DeVault wrote about this last autumn
Oh. Thanks. I do read his blog, but I might have let that post drift by because it seemed focused on Omarchy, which was already on my radar. (Sometimes I don't go "below the fold" when the stuff "above the fold" is both familiar and unpleasant. In this case going past the first couple screens would've been informative. And unpleasant.)
I wish people would stop talking about this stuff in every ladybird thread. Andreas is a very reasonable human being and you can talk to him, and actually have a conversation about these things if you want more than just taking small soundbites that people read the worst of all interpretations into.
I'm glad that people on lobste.rs generally consider human and political context of technologies important and keep it highlighted.
The last time when a conversation here about Ladybird involved its author's position I was able to follow the links and see for myself that the "soundbites" do describe it pretty accurately.
Same here. I remember thinking "wow this is even worse than advertised – I can't believe I finally agree with Drew DeVault on something" ;)
I can't believe I finally agree with Drew DeVault on something
I remember disagreeing with Drew in the past, on what I can’t remember, but Drew is pretty consistently “correct” on most things. Definitely a truth seeker, and definitely someone who shows the receipts. I respect that.
I strongly disagree with this.
Making people responsible for their fascist takes when they are de facto face of the project is extremely important.
These people need to be called out otherwise we just enable them further.
the world doesn't need polite nazis
Sure? But Andreas is not a nazi.
sure endorses a lot of nazis and nazi takes for a not-a-nazi
https://drewdevault.com/2025/09/24/2025-09-24-Cloudflare-and-fascists.html
DHH is also not a nazi. I strongly disagree with his political views as well, but that does not automatically make him a nazi. That attitude prevents any reasonable discussion and I hope this community can be better than that.
You can disagree with someone, someone's views and still attempt to understand where they are coming from and without labeling them.
DHH is also not a nazi.
I mean, DHH is not goose-stepping and wearing a Nazi uniform, if that's your criterion for calling someone a Nazi. But he has publicly endorsed the great replacement theory, which is pretty central to the neo-Nazi movement as it exists today. I think that's enough to call him a Nazi.
reasonable discussions cannot be had with these people. you can say you "strongly disagree" all you want. but at the end of the day you're choosing to argue with the people calling out nazi rhetoric instead of the people who regurgitate it (referring to the reply under your top level comment trying to sane-wash white replacement theory)
so your actions make it pretty clear where you stand
reasonable discussions cannot be had with these people.
I found that it's much easier to have reasonable discussion in person than on the internet. In general what I learned over many years is that there is a lot less that divides us, once we're willing to engage in conversations. That does not mean that we will come to a full agreement, but it enables us to make a lot more progress.
so your actions make it pretty clear where you stand
I don't think you can make a lot of assumptions about "where I stand" based on a conversation like this. However I have written plenty about how I see life on my two blogs, so if you are curious you could read that. Yet related to what I mean before, I don't think it's a good idea to try to reduce people to your immediate impression based on how they might fall based on a few tweets or comments, which are usually a great reduction of sometimes quite complex thoughts.
I found that it's much easier to have reasonable discussion in person than on the internet. In general what I learned over many years is that there is a lot less that divides us,
Is the burden of proof on a random lobster commentator for showing that dhh or ladybirds creator have more nuanced views?
'Cause while I agree with your premise, using their platform to spread (what is to me) awful and lacking-any-empathy-for-minorities political views without ever adding nuance, like your blog does, is a thing that sure makes it look like a duck who quacks too far to the right.
Is the burden of proof on a random lobster commentator for showing that dhh or ladybirds creator have more nuanced views?
I don't know the answer to this question. I just notice that any discussion about ladybird or Andreas on this website has become impossible because within a few minutes of the submission someone will drop a comment about someone's political leanings.
'Cause while I agree with your premise, using their platform to spread (what is to me) awful and lacking-any-empathy-for-minorities political views without ever adding nuance, like your blog does
"Like my blog does"? I heard a lot of stuff over the years about my writings, but that is new to me. Care to elaborate?
I took them to mean your "blog does" "adding nuance" in contrast to the others being discussed, but that's just my charitable interpretation without knowing for sure what they meant and without having read your blog (sorry ;-)).
any discussion about ladybird or Andreas on this website has become impossible
The primary comment box is still there, y'know.
I just notice that any discussion about ladybird or Andreas on this website has become impossible because within a few minutes of the submission someone will drop a comment about someone's political leanings.
Seems like a chicken-and-egg problem where somebody said something racist/fascist without every clarifying and now can't do much without it still being brought up. I personally don't blame people for calling behaviour out, in the case of this topic, I'm more interested in Servo or a comparison of it, it can be a great alternative without the awful BDFL view (afaik).
I don't have an answer for any of this, but I don't have any empathy for the image dhh and ladybird's creators have found themselves in.
Care to elaborate?
Honestly, I was heavily in doubt if I should post my comment because it's straight up off-topic, so I don't want to elaborate on it. There are socials on my github page(through lobster profile) so feel free to DM if possible, but I will say that your "What’s a Foreigner?" elicits for me(a person of color/minority in The Netherlands) a more interesting and thoughtful discussion than whatever I've seen from the people mentioned in this thread.
edit: think we've might misunderstood each other, I don't mean to say your blogposts lack nuance.
edit: think we've might misunderstood each other, I don't mean to say your blogposts lack nuance.
Sorry yes, I misunderstood what you said.
The world doesn't need calls for political violence either.
the political violence started when people espoused nazi ideology. any retaliation is self defense and morally justifiable
The thing I dislike about this and other "paradox of tolerance" type things is that the people who say this stuff are the most likely to find just about anything to be "nazism". Not yet a full decade ago, "Nazis" included progressive political analysts who quoted Omar Wasow and left-wing journalists who interviewed black people during the BLM heyday. This stuff fatigues everyone and people stop taking Nazism seriously. It also makes the politically incorrect "nazis" more sympathetic to ordinary people and it makes those of us on the left seem like extremists by association.
I wish people would provide links when they say such things rather than leaving it as an exercise to the reader to do the research and/or for people to argue in the comments over whether a person is/isn't a white supremacist or whatever without context. IMO, if you're going to drop such a comment, you should also take the time to publish the receipts with it. It is a charged accusation, and if you're going to make it, then back it up.
That said, if a person has espoused these views, I see no reason why people should stop talking about it in every thread. It's relevant and each time a project is mentioned there are new people exposed to it. If I was totally unaware of Ladybird or some other project, that's information I'd want to have before diving into it.
Yeah. I'd hope that to most people it'd be clear from looking at the main "evidence" of that blog post that the accusations of fascism or nazism are ridiculous. But IDK if that's the case.
Like, there's such a thing as being "too high on your own farts" (not sure if this expression exists in English, but i hope it's meaning is self-evident enough). As a simpler example, take extreme vegan postures. I think not eating animals is good; and i'd like humanity in general to reduce it's dependency on the cruel and unnecessary practice of industrial animal butchering. But i also think that vegans that treat any non-vegan person as a murderer are not doing any good to the cause of reducing animal suffering. On the contrary, that loud minority becomes an easy target to point out as "see? these people are nuts!" and then dismiss the whole idea of not killing so many animals as ridiculous.
I think a similar thing happens with these light accusations of fascism on the internet. If we start calling reasonable people like Kling fascists, what word are we going to use for people who really support fascist shit and are actively working today to erode democracy and civil rights?
I think a similar thing happens with these light accusations of fascism on the internet. If we start calling reasonable people like Kling fascists, what word are we going to use for people who really support fascist shit and are actively working today to erode democracy and civil rights?
That's simple: fascists.
I haven't called Kling a fascist and I'm not yet ready to do so -- but looking over a few things he's said and people he's voiced sympathy for (e.g., Charlie Kirk, DHH), I'm also not willing to extend "reasonable people" to him either. My current read of Kling is that he's far more supportive of the far-right (e.g. fascists) than far-left. I could be wrong, in part because the public statements that I've seen seem crafted to provide deniability. Perhaps he is not someone who would actively support fascism, but he does not seem actively bothered by it either.
Extremist groups use all sorts of methods to normalize their rhetoric and ideas. That includes getting support from "reasonable" people who claim they don't support the extremist views, but also really just want everybody to be able to calm down and have a conversation, and don't ever ostracize anybody for political views or bring politics into the workplace, etc.
As you rightly note, there are people working today to erode democracy, civil rights, and worse. Those people couldn't be openly doing those things without support and passive acceptance. Anything shy of denouncing and opposing a fascist movement is essentially supporting it.
Is it unreasonable to notice europeans becoming minorities in cities throughout europe? Or is it unreasonable to think it’s bad? Is it ok if you think it’s happening and it’s good? (Afaik that’s the mainstream medias position? For example Piers Morgan rtc saying its great that the capital of england is only like 35% english people.)
europeans becoming minorities in cities throughout europe
That doesn't make any sense. If they live in a European city they are de facto European. Please at least say out loud what you really mean.
I mean white people (Europeans). I don’t think anyone would have been confused if I were talking about Africans or the Japanese, etc. I stand by my questions. Which is unacceptable to believe: it’s happening and bad, it’s happening and good, or that it’s happening at all? If it’s not happening, what percentage does the white population have to drop to in a white or formerly white country for it to be a real thing?
Is it never a real thing? Is anyone country ever justified in caring about demographics?
To spell it out to you:
Which is unacceptable to believe: it’s happening and bad
Yes, that is indeed unacceptable.
I personally don't really care about the authors political leanings (Which I feel like is the minority here).
I just want a decent alternative browser that isn't bankrolled by big tech companies.
I feel the project would have a lot more fans if he'd kept his politics to himself.