Reminder about Framework Laptop
48 points by catilac
48 points by catilac
I hope this is removed for off topic. It won’t further my next program.
We could fill this site with links of companies who do far worse with their contributions, or their business. Not to excuse Framework, but it doesn’t belong here in my opinion.
I don't think it's off-topic, and this situation has certainly dissuaded me from buying a Framework, but it is a duplicate posting of a story in which there have been no new developments since it was last posted.
You probably want to also avoid hardware from Apple, Dell, Intel, Nvidia, Google, Microsoft, and more. Honestly if you don't like your money going to people you don't like, you may want to stick to buying used. And then hope the seller doesn't fund things you disagree with. Oh, and also try to ignore that the secondary market helps fund primary purchases by other people. :)
I do avoid those, as much as I can. But it's way, way easier to name-and-shame a small company like Framework and maybe actually improve the world, vs Dell who have entire training programs to surgically remove the shame of its drones. Speaking as someone who got to be a fly on the wall last time my boss negotiated a hardware purchase from Dell.
Saying "there are also big problems" doesn't make solving small problems less useful. You solve big problems the same way, one small step at a time.
Framework's own response w/updates at https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/75986/2
I disagree that this controversy is off-topic in general but consider it unnecessary to repost so soon. There are many people on this website who don't care about whether or not Framework gives money to racists, and that's bad, but simply posting the same thing again isn't likely to change their minds.
I would prefer to see some additional analysis or an update, if you'd like to start a further conversation about this.
I probably could have put this link into the post about framework that was on the frontpage last night. I think this may have been me sub-posting.
I'm not even against sub-posting in general; I just think Lobsters in particular is a format that makes it difficult to carry out a useful conversation that way.
On the bright side, this ugliness brought me back to the enlightened path of eBay obtained corporate decommissioned almost-modern ThinkPads.
Please try not to post ragebaits on this site. The more often this happens the less useful the site is.
I couldn’t possibly care less.
Is it a good device? Yes.
Do they use components (just like everyone else) that engage in human rights abuses? Yes.
As far as I can remember, 70% of cobalt mining happens in the republic of Congo, and uses child labour, same for Quartz and Tatalium used for semiconductors… maybe thats indirect enough for you to feel good about yourself.
Then there’s foxxconn, and their suicide net laden factories- good luck avoiding any company that gives them money.
Magnets? Bayan Obo mine in china supplies most of those, the impact on workers (and the environment) is severe and has been compared to concentration camps.
If you want to be ethically clean, don’t participate in the purchase of technology… giving money to a guy who has wrong opinions is the least problematic thing going on. Get over yourself.
No gotcha.
Just dislike performative self-congratulatory activism.
especially around something as pithy as an opinion, which we can publicly attack and denigrate.
Whats more worthy of boycotting are the industries I mentioned; but out of sight, out of mind; and feeling good is more important than actually helping people.
I’m also aware that I’m not offering myself to boycott those industries, though I try to be cognizant of whats happening and shape my decisions accordingly: I am well aware my money is feeding this. I just don’t feel smug and superior about it, which is what a lot of people are doing on the internet when conducting themselves with the resolve seen in the post.
Like Mister Gotcha there, you are using an argument that proves all activism is wrong. The people collecting for food banks at my local grocery store? Far more people suffer as a result of food insecurity caused by globalisation. If they want to be ethically clean, they shouldn't participate in global trade at all. Certainly they shouldn't be anywhere near a supermarket that sells non-fairtrade coffee.
I understand America is currently rounding up immigrants and sending them to foreign torture prisons. Far-right racist influencers helped bring this about. DHH recently wrote an article singing the praises of a group that wants to do the same to my country. Racism may be “something as pithy as an opinion” but it's an opinion that is winning and causing a great deal of suffering. Framework is boosting people who want it to win more, hurt more people. I'm going to assume you agree that would be bad.
Does it strain credulity too much to imagine that the OP liked Framework, doesn't like racism, and made an earnest attempt to reconcile those by trying to put pressure on Framework to stop supporting a racist? Would that be so wrong?
If you'll indulge me and assume that this was indeed the case, what other course of action would you suggest to them?
I’d suggest they grow up.
Not everyone is going to agree with you, you’re going to have to live with it.
As for “giving racists a power”, DHH has no power, he’s not even Andrew Tate or Tommy Robinson famous, he’s just a narcissistic nerd who thinks because he cracked the formula to make an ergonomic web framework in the 2010’s that this entitles him to feel right about everything.
There are worse racists, with more power, that you’re paying- they’re hust bot famous enough for you to know about.
My actual advice is not to sweat it, because if you take on the worlds problems this way you’re dooming yourself to a life of anxiety, stress and frustration. Because you don’t understand the worlds problems, and not everyone is going to agree with you and if you treat the worlds population with a perpetual purity test: they will always fall short.
So if you break one leg you might as well break the other.
You sound like you have a superior view of yourself because you say you know what your money is doing and might choose to spend it that way.
Ah, we shouldn't attempt to make the Linux scene more open or inclusive, because... capitalism? Huh!
First they screamed, but you don’t give enough back to the communities you benefit from!!!
And then Framework directly supported those communities financially to the tune of $215k.
Then they said, oh but you’re not sponsoring the RIGHT communities that perfectly check off our skewed ideological “are you righteous and performative enough for me to boast about how great I am for acting like I care” checklists.
Sheesh.. don’t people have better things to do with their time???
Good on Framework for standing by their perfectly reasonable, and rather generous decisions.
Is lobste.rs a political site? There seems to be a few people intent on making it one.
Technology is inherently political, of course lobste.rs is a political site.
Whether or not this particular post is on-topic is another matter.
It seems to me at least that the ratio of political posts has risen a bit lately. This seems to be off-topic according to what I interpret from the site guidelines on topicality. (Sorry if this is too meta for a comment thread on a non-meta post!)
I would certainly not waste my time posting this. The whole controversy was kind of silly in my opinion.
Thanks for posting. I never checked the CEO's updates after the weirdos turned this into a "controversy" the first time. Having read them, I feel even more comfortable buying Framework products in the future.