I'll only buy devices with GrapheneOS
43 points by mtlynch
43 points by mtlynch
It’s just sad that you have to buy from Google and pay at least 10x the price of a device that would work very well already. Freedom advocates that just say everybody should use GrapheneOS are completely unaware of the realities of most people in the world.
This is my biggest issue with GrapheneOS over alternatives like LineageOS. I don’t want Google hardware any more than I want Google software at this point, and I care more about openness and reducing e-waste than specific hardware security features.
And their justification for only supporting Pixel hardware is that only Pixels have adequate hardware security features - the very features Google is using to lock down devices and take away users’ control of their devices and their data.
And yes I’m aware that these features are also useful against some genuine security threats. It’s just that “evil maid” attacks and the like are far lower on my list of things to worry about than enshittification and anti-consumer behavior by tech giants, because I actually struggle with that every day in my life.
That just sounds like a difference in priorities. GrapheneOS is supposed to be secure and private, while LineageOS is supposed to be close to vanilla AOSP on as many devices as reasonable/possible.
For what it’s worth, I share your priorities, so I choose LineageOS for my Android devices. But, I never really thought of GrapheneOS as something I have “issues” with. Rather, it’s just not what I’m “shopping” for.
Interestingly, there’s already at least one app that works only on Google Android or GrapheneOS, but not other custom builds of Android like LineageOS. They check for GrapheneOS using AOSP remote attestation capabilities. (Play Integrity is an abstraction layer on top of this which is hardcoded to only allow Google Android.) This is an improvement over the previous versions, which only permitted Google Android.
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115062668650722009
So I guess your choice then would be to embrace GrapheneOS with its (more or less reasonable?) limitations, or embrace LineageOS with its device support and customizability, and just refuse to use such apps. Or petition for LineageOS to be added to the whitelist as well.
But anyway, if GrapheneOS provides better app support than any other “de-Googled” Android OS, that might be a reason to choose it over LineageOS regardless of if you are concerned about the privacy and security features or not.
You can buy second-hand pixel devices, or older ones. Compared to those prices, what you could get at 1/10th of that is either electric waste, or subsidized in some other way (e.g. is so chock full of spyware that you are the product - like having to watch an ad to change ringtone)
GrapheneOS is great, been using it for over a year now across two phones. The article is spot on - it offers tighter control over your device (for example google play store is no longer exempt from the permissions system) without compromising usability in any way. It feels like a straightforward upgrade from an existing Android system.
I noticed the BankID logo and then the .se domain and realised the author is also in Sweden.
Thing is: what’s the point really?
If you’re running BankID you need Google Play Services and you need to log in to them in order for it to work.
Without a mobile BankID I am effectively “unpersoned” in Sweden.
So how can GrapheneOS help with authoritarianism if the apps are essentially mandated and require us to tie ourselves to tech giants in the background?
(btw, I have a Pixel 7 with GrapheneOS and agree that it’s a joy to use compared to any Samsung phone I’ve seen)
https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play tl;dr its got less permissions, it can be installed in only a work profile if you want
additonally some apps only check for google’s apps on provision, and not after that. If you can get to that state either by copying from another phone, or some other method, then you get a working app
One “point” would be to normalize not having to own a proprietary electronic device approved by some corporation in order to be live in a supposedly free country.
I have no idea of what BankID is but if it’s something crucial for living in Sweden it should have never become associated with one specific hardware vendor (and of course it should be possible to use one without needing a phone).
I mean, you need a bank account to access BankID. That’s not something guaranteed by law.
You do have access to many essential services in Sweden without BankID, but it’s increasingly inconvenient (for example, you can visit a few “service centers” for medical insurance, unemployment etc). OTOH, having one centralized source of identity makes it cheap and easy to provide secure authentication for multiple parties.
I’d be interested in learning about other eID solutions that don’t rely on the device being authorized by Google or Apple.
I’d be interested in learning about other eID solutions that don’t rely on the device being authorized by Google or Apple.
DFRI has been working on an alternative for a while, but I’m not sure about where they’re at with it at the moment.
But I did attend a few of their open meetings about a year ago, and at the time they seemed a bit too focused on mutual TLS to be able to deliver all that nice or useful of an experience. But I wieh them luck.
I’m not familiar with BankID, but I see they have a smartcard option. I assume it’s much more convenient to use the mobile app, but are there situations that the smartcard doesn’t work for?
I agree with you though that we shouldn’t be required to tie ourselves to tech giants. It’s especially surprising when European countries have systems like this that require ties to American companies!
BankID is a Swedish electronic ID system.
Others in use include Freja eID, but BankID is the dominant player.
It’s run/owned by the Swedish banks, and the authentication process is basically to visit a bank branch and present a valid ID (passport, driver’s license, or national identity card).
After that, you can download a certificate via your bank’s website. It can also be downloaded to a PC (I haven’t used that feature in a decade, so I don’t know if Linux is supported).
After its install, you can use it basically anywhere where you have an account tied to your personnummer (which is a numerical representation of your identity) - banks, healthcare provide, tax authority - but also stuff like telling the school your kid is sick. It really simplifies account management for a ton of places and sites.
The Google Play requirement sounds like a proxy to determine the integrity of the phone hardware. Obviously, BankID is a high value target for fraudsters, so ensuring an unbroken authentication chain is very important.
After that, you can download a certificate via your bank’s website. It can also be downloaded to a PC (I haven’t used that feature in a decade, so I don’t know if Linux is supported).
The desktop application deprecated, sadly.
I think in this case it’s at least partially a testament to how insidious the platform lock-in of Google Play Services is. By design, naturally.
Similar here. I’m in Denmark, I’ve been tempted to get a device running GrapheneOS, but the prevalence of the similar MitID here has me worried it’s just going to get thrown in a drawer like my Pinephone.
Grapheneos may not be wrong for this world. Google is no longer publishing the basic hardware blobs like they used to. So graphene may have no choice but to embrace an alternative platform. Future versions of Android May limit the life of this wonderful operating system.